Active Shooter Engagements

[Tabby]

While active shooters are not anything new and seem to be happening on a more and more regular basis. I do not see anyone training to engage an active shooter should you come across one. Face facts: the chances of being able to engage an active shooter at what seems to be everybody's favorite self defense range, 10 feet is pretty much not going to happen. Active shooters have been showing up anywhere and everywhere: schools, churches, grocery stores, gas stations, shopping malls, out on the street corner and any number or variety of places. While I cannot absolutely guarantee it, the only place you are probably not going to find an active shooter is at a gun range. Active shooters only go where they think they have the best opportunity to wreak the most havoc, death, and destruction possible, mostly gun free zones that the gun control zealots mistakenly feel is the answer to these problems, which is nothing further than the truth. Gun free zones only give the active shooters a place where they think they can go unchallenged. My thoughts are to not only challenge these deranged people, but to stop them from continuing their assault on innocent people. Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to positively identify and challenge these people before they fire the first round. This means that there is the possibility that someone is going to get hurt before anyone can respond is almost a given. However if there is someone in the vicinity who has a concealed carry permit and is actually carrying a firearm, the chances of stopping the active shooter at the onset of their attack and limiting the damage done is increased. This is only possible if the person carrying the defensive firearm is capable of engaging the active shooter accurately at extended ranges without causing collateral damage. In order to do this it is imperative that we practice engaging a target with our carry handgun at extended ranges. 50 yards is more than reasonable, it is easily done all the time by competitive shooters who can place 10 rounds into an 8-inch circle at 50 yards with great ease. While this ability is not required in a defensive shooting situation, the ability to keep your hits in an 18 inch area at these ranges ensures you can hit your target, but much more importantly, not hit any bystanders. During all of my pistol training courses I have my students shooting at 50 feet from day one. They are all shooting my target or match grade firearms with the ammo that the particular firearm likes best. "Why, you ask?" because that means that bullet placement is where the student is actually shooting, not where the firearm is scattering the shots. When its final exam time I take out the official NRA four inch targets and have the students shoot at the prescribed NRA distances between 5 and 40 feet. I once had a student ask me why if this was the standard. why did I have them shooting from 50 feet. My answer, which actually made sense to the student is, "If you can hit the target from that distance, then hitting the target at shorter distances is very easy." So my friends, in order to meet the new challenges in our sorry world as it is today, start worrying about stopping the aggressor not only as it applies to you, but those around you. Make the world a better and safer place.

 

[Tom L]

Hope you're still teaching. I could use some help like that. Shooting from a sitting position (disabled) with accuracy is tough. Throw in a weakened grip and it gets even tougher. So, I envy your students.

 

[Tabby]

Hope you're still teaching. I could use some help like that. Shooting from a sitting position (disabled) with accuracy is tough. Throw in a weakened grip and it gets even tougher. So, I envy your students.

Tom, I still teach, but it's on a word of mouth basis. I don't advertise. I use NRA training materials and am a NRA Certified instructor, which reminds me my renewal is in May of this year. In an active shooter training scenario I would be teaching how to engage targets at extended ranges, mostly out to 50 yards or 100 if they would like to try it. It's actually not all that difficult as long as you are not trying it with a micro pistol a 22 or 380. My recommendation is a 38 Special or 357 mag, 9mm 40 or 45 ACP. I currently am practicing with a Sig P365 X which is a 9mm. Not exactly my favorite round, but with the newer ammo available these days is adequate.

Disabled shooters seem to think that they are not as good as others due to their disability. Defense shooting is not done from any standard shooting position, it is done at any stable position you are able to get into where you can get the sights properly aligned and press the trigger. A braced position, using anything close by that will help add stability is good. You probably wouldn't think twice about using a nearby sapling to steady your shot when deer hunting, same goes here. Any position and anything to steady your aim. Shooting from a chair is actually pretty easy as long as you don't enter into the situation with a negative attitude.

Weak grip? Hope you are not trying to shoot any semi auto pistol if you can't grip it properly. Semi Autos are much more difficult to shoot than a revolver. With a revolver, hopefully double action. the tight grip required for a semi auto is not needed, The revolver is not dependent upon a tight grip to allow the action to function, there are no moving parts outside of the trigger and hammer. Holding steady without a death grip is easy and if shooting single action (requires an exposed hammer) and the light trigger pull along with the fixed barrel which is inherently more accurate than any semi auto will ever hope to be.
A revolver with a 2 or 3 inch barrel and adjustable sights is a perfect firearm for both self and the defense of others. If you have a chance to shoot a revolver give it a try. You will find it much easier to shoot accurately and the 38 Special or 357 magnum is more than up to the task at 50 or more yards,

PM me if you have any questions.

 

[Tom L]

Thanks Tabby. Currently my edc is a S&W Equalizer. It is a semi-auto 9mm. It is one I am able to rack. It has a manual safety. It also has a back-strap safety. The manual is no big deal, but the back-strap requires a firm grip. I will admit I tend to get kind of uptight before shooting. Maybe too excited. And, I am a little intimidated by others around me who walk in, put their gear out and start shooting amazing groupings. I shoot at 25 feet. And while everything is within 8", one could hardly call it a grouping. Anyway, I shoot with both elbows on the table or just sit up with straight arms. I am OK for the first few, but as I shoot the mag it gets sloppier. Also adjust for the gun which seems to be a small amount to the left and down. Though, as you point out that could also be me. I really like the gun. Have two of them. One carry and one staged in the house. I grew up shooting revolvers. Funny you mention them. Was just looking at the S&W 686 or similar. As a kid, and later as a reserve LEO I shot K frames and really like those. Looking at the J frames too. Any thoughts? I realize you live and shoot west of me. Are you aware of anyone I could contact in my area? I shoot at WFTC in Brookfield. FYI, the reason for a wheelchair has a lot to do with breathing and weakness after all kinds of chemo. If all looks good on my next scan I hope to work back to using a rollator. When I used a rolator I would just sit on it and roll up to the table. Again, thank you Tabby. Really appreciate the encouragement.

 

[Tabby]

Thanks Tabby. Currently my edc is a S&W Equalizer. It is a semi-auto 9mm. It is one I am able to rack. It has a manual safety. It also has a back-strap safety. The manual is no big deal, but the back-strap requires a firm grip.



I am not all that familiar with the Equalizer, just read some reviews on it and from what everyone says it’s a reliable and accurate pistol, but does have some issues for people with small and/or weak hands.



I will admit I tend to get kind of uptight before shooting. Maybe too excited. And, I am a little intimidated by others around me who walk in, put their gear out and start shooting amazing groupings. I shoot at 25 feet. And while everything is within 8", one could hardly call it a grouping.



Being nervous or feeling intimidated by others who shoot better than you, especially since you already feel behind the power curve by being disabled is self destructive. You probably find yourself glancing at the other person’s target while shooting, comparing their shot placement to yours. So let’s get the cards on the table, you shouldn’t care, and it don’t matter. The only person that you have to compete against is yourself. Your goal should be to improve your shooting, and only your shooting each and every time you go to the range. I shot in a lot of competitive matches both rifle and pistol, usually shooting the national match course. For pistol it is comprised of timed fire across the board, slow fire 1 shot per minute, timed fire 5 shots withing 20 seconds and rapid fire 5 shots in 10 seconds. The time for comparing scores is after all the firing is finished, and then only to see how you have progressed since the last match.



Anyway, I shoot with both elbows on the table or just sit up with straight arms. I am OK for the first few, but as I shoot the mag it gets sloppier. Also adjust for the gun which seems to be a small amount to the left and down.



In most cases the left and down is a combination of several errors, the first is not having a tight enough grip. This causes the pistol to slide around in your hand. Breathing and trigger control as well as anticipating the shot all feed into this issue, but it is in fact easily corrected with time, concentration and practice.



Though, as you point out that could also be me.



I really like the gun. Have two of them. One carry and one staged in the house.



While you like the gun, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the gun likes you. In so many cases someone buys a firearm because they like the looks of it, or because it comes highly recommended by someone else. The worst thing that a person can do is take a husband or boyfriend along when purchasing a new firearm. The same goes for taking a buddy along. Instead of getting something that fits you, you end up with something that they like, or maybe fits their hand perfectly, but not yours. Another problem is trusting the person behind the gun counter to give you good advice. Most of the gun clerks (as I call them) are not instructors, have no idea how to fit a firearm to a person, especially their hand. There are many considerations, grip angle, distance to the trigger, which varies widely. A trigger too close or too far makes controlling the trigger press difficult. Grip size, which these days is somewhat adjustable by individual palm swell inserts but has a great affect on accuracy.



I grew up shooting revolvers. Funny you mention them. Was just looking at the S&W 686 or similar. As a kid, and later as a reserve LEO I shot K frames and really like those. Looking at the J frames too. Any thoughts?



My Dad was an Illinois State Police officer and was a MP in the Army during WWII. Fortunately for me, he was an excellent shot as well as a good instructor. The first handgun I ever shot was a S&W Model 19 shooting 148 gr target loads. That was at 14, at 17 I was already in the Army where I learned how to shoot both rifles and pistols, and was appointed a marksmanship instructor on both rifles and pistols.
The Model 19 and Model 66 are still my favorites.



The 686 most likely would not be a good choice for you due to the size and weight. Your thoughts about a K or J frame are actually in line with what you are most likely able to shoot the best.



I realize you live and shoot west of me. Are you aware of anyone I could contact in my area? I shoot at WFTC in Brookfield. FYI, the reason for a wheelchair has a lot to do with breathing and weakness after all kinds of chemo.



Actually the time and distance from my house to WFTC is exactly 1 hour and 66 miles, not like it’s a long journey. I’ve never been to WFTC, the places I go in that neck of the wood are Fletcher Arms in both Waukesha and PeWaukee. The new location in PeWaukee is absolutely fantastic. Super indoor range out to 25 yards, great people, and very good instructors on staff. I would not be opposed to meeting up in Pewaukee, or making the little extra drive to Brookfield. Maybe we should consider getting together some time in the future.



If all looks good on my next scan I hope to work back to using a rollator. When I used a rolator I would just sit on it and roll up to the table. Again, thank you Tabby. Really appreciate the encouragement.



Us older folks have to stick together. Maybe we can show the youngsters a thing or three .

 

[Tom L]

Thanks Tabby. Currently my edc is a S&W Equalizer. It is a semi-auto 9mm. It is one I am able to rack. It has a manual safety. It also has a back-strap safety. The manual is no big deal, but the back-strap requires a firm grip.



I am not all that familiar with the Equalizer, just read some reviews on it and from what everyone says it’s a reliable and accurate pistol, but does have some issues for people with small and/or weak hands.



I will admit I tend to get kind of uptight before shooting. Maybe too excited. And, I am a little intimidated by others around me who walk in, put their gear out and start shooting amazing groupings. I shoot at 25 feet. And while everything is within 8", one could hardly call it a grouping.



Being nervous or feeling intimidated by others who shoot better than you, especially since you already feel behind the power curve by being disabled is self destructive. You probably find yourself glancing at the other person’s target while shooting, comparing their shot placement to yours. So let’s get the cards on the table, you shouldn’t care, and it don’t matter. The only person that you have to compete against is yourself. Your goal should be to improve your shooting, and only your shooting each and every time you go to the range. I shot in a lot of competitive matches both rifle and pistol, usually shooting the national match course. For pistol it is comprised of timed fire across the board, slow fire 1 shot per minute, timed fire 5 shots withing 20 seconds and rapid fire 5 shots in 10 seconds. The time for comparing scores is after all the firing is finished, and then only to see how you have progressed since the last match.



Anyway, I shoot with both elbows on the table or just sit up with straight arms. I am OK for the first few, but as I shoot the mag it gets sloppier. Also adjust for the gun which seems to be a small amount to the left and down.



In most cases the left and down is a combination of several errors, the first is not having a tight enough grip. This causes the pistol to slide around in your hand. Breathing and trigger control as well as anticipating the shot all feed into this issue, but it is in fact easily corrected with time, concentration and practice.



Though, as you point out that could also be me.



I really like the gun. Have two of them. One carry and one staged in the house.



While you like the gun, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the gun likes you. In so many cases someone buys a firearm because they like the looks of it, or because it comes highly recommended by someone else. The worst thing that a person can do is take a husband or boyfriend along when purchasing a new firearm. The same goes for taking a buddy along. Instead of getting something that fits you, you end up with something that they like, or maybe fits their hand perfectly, but not yours. Another problem is trusting the person behind the gun counter to give you good advice. Most of the gun clerks (as I call them) are not instructors, have no idea how to fit a firearm to a person, especially their hand. There are many considerations, grip angle, distance to the trigger, which varies widely. A trigger too close or too far makes controlling the trigger press difficult. Grip size, which these days is somewhat adjustable by individual palm swell inserts but has a great affect on accuracy.



I grew up shooting revolvers. Funny you mention them. Was just looking at the S&W 686 or similar. As a kid, and later as a reserve LEO I shot K frames and really like those. Looking at the J frames too. Any thoughts?



My Dad was an Illinois State Police officer and was a MP in the Army during WWII. Fortunately for me, he was an excellent shot as well as a good instructor. The first handgun I ever shot was a S&W Model 19 shooting 148 gr target loads. That was at 14, at 17 I was already in the Army where I learned how to shoot both rifles and pistols, and was appointed a marksmanship instructor on both rifles and pistols.
The Model 19 and Model 66 are still my favorites.



The 686 most likely would not be a good choice for you due to the size and weight. Your thoughts about a K or J frame are actually in line with what you are most likely able to shoot the best.



I realize you live and shoot west of me. Are you aware of anyone I could contact in my area? I shoot at WFTC in Brookfield. FYI, the reason for a wheelchair has a lot to do with breathing and weakness after all kinds of chemo.



Actually the time and distance from my house to WFTC is exactly 1 hour and 66 miles, not like it’s a long journey. I’ve never been to WFTC, the places I go in that neck of the wood are Fletcher Arms in both Waukesha and PeWaukee. The new location in PeWaukee is absolutely fantastic. Super indoor range out to 25 yards, great people, and very good instructors on staff. I would not be opposed to meeting up in Pewaukee, or making the little extra drive to Brookfield. Maybe we should consider getting together some time in the future.



If all looks good on my next scan I hope to work back to using a rollator. When I used a rolator I would just sit on it and roll up to the table. Again, thank you Tabby. Really appreciate the encouragement.



Us older folks have to stick together. Maybe we can show the youngsters a thing or three .

Thank you Tabby. You have given me a lot to think about. And it would be great to meet you. Have a bunch of medical stuff in the next few weeks. After that I could get to Fletcher's. Range time will be on me. I'll send a message soon.